Discussion:Fondation de la ville de Saint-Louis
Tu as réussi à déchiffrer tout ça ? C'est un travail éblouissant ! --Zephyrus 17 juillet 2006 à 14:06 (UTC)
- j'ai eu l'aide pour une partie de la première page, de alex-victoria. Le reste est de moi. Par contre les ratures de la page 3 posent problème.--Bertrand GRONDIN 17 juillet 2006 à 14:08 (UTC)
- Bon travail ! Yann 17 juillet 2006 à 20:09 (UTC)
- Wonderful! This looks great! I will let you guys know if I come across any other french documents locally that look interesting. Or at least more significant than my ancestor's personal corespondence.--BirgitteSB 19 juillet 2006 à 15:36 (UTC)
- except the first page, I did the rest of the Journal.--Bertrand GRONDIN 19 juillet 2006 à 15:39 (UTC)
| Informations sur l'édition de Fondation de la ville de Saint-Louis |
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Édition : Manuscrit Source : Saint-Louis Mercantile Library at the University of Missouri. Contributeur(s): Bertrand GRONDIN Niveau d'avancement : Remarques : Texte apparemment mis conformément au manuscrit original. Le style, les anciens mots ainsi que les fautes de grammaire ou d'usage ont été conservés. Des notes ont été mises avec la véritable orthographe. Relu et corrigé par : |
Clarifications which can be made with local knowledge modifier
This should help with some readings you are unsure of
- first red "missouri". Fort de Chartes is a french built fort on the eastern bank of the Missisppi river. The french had to abandon it and move to the western bank as that is how borders were drawn. It is located south of St. Louis and north of Ste. Genevieve (which are both on the western "french" bank, altough it was actually spanish by then). St. Louis is at the confluence of the Missouri and Mississppi rivers. I believe that in this instance "missouri" is refering to the river rather than the tribal nation the river was named for. My french is poor and I could wrong.
- W:en:Fort Osage
--BirgitteSB 19 juillet 2006 à 15:52 (UTC)
- Vu et corrigé.--Bertrand GRONDIN 19 juillet 2006 à 16:21 (UTC)
I am slowly adding more. If they are bold and in blue do you still want more information? Also wanted to add the english translation is 19th century and their thinking regarding "Indians" may have colored the translation. A common saying from the American frontier is "The only good indian is a dead indian". At the time of the translation the US goverment was actively driving out any remaining tribes from desirable lands.--BirgitteSB--69.149.226.37 19 juillet 2006 à 17:03 (UTC)
- W:Appaloosa
- " aetitapas" W:Atakapa alternate spelling could be a historical rendering of the name.
- w:en:Peoria (tribe)
- "micchiquamici" I believe this is a historical transliteration of "Michigamea" based on what I know of the pronounciation. See w:en:Illiniwek as they do no have thier own article but were part of the Illiniwek confederation.
- " M. De Neyon, sans aucune intéressement quelconque en qui lui fit faire par humanité" The last large paragraph of this letter may shed some light here. My french is too poor to be sure they are regarding the same incident. However if you google "De Neyon" several pieces of correspodence will be shown.
- "despretions Pondiac" Does w:en:Chief Pontiac help?
- Rgarding red words around mentions of Spain. My french is too poor to be of much help but does this article clarify what was happening?
I think that is all I can help with unles you can ask me questions about alternatives as my french is too poor to make out the remaining red words and guess what they are regarding. Also if you haven't already looked into some Creole documents, they might be of use. The french used in this may have already started to diverge down at Nlle Orleans by this time. en:BrigitteSB--69.149.226.37 19 juillet 2006 à 17:52 (UTC)
- Also regarding the label "extract". I do not believe this is an extract of his Journal, but a copy of the acount that was originally described in the journal. He copied this out later in life and it was kept seperate from the actual journal which was destroyed in a fire. I am not sure were I read this but I will be returning to the libary where the text is housed and will confirm soon--en:BrigitteSB--69.149.226.37 19 juillet 2006 à 18:06 (UTC)
Help about color text modifier
- douteux ; doubtful
- déduit ; deduction
- certain ; sure
Bertrand GRONDIN 19 juillet 2006 à 19:25 (UTC)
- Merci beaucoup! --en:BrigitteSB--69.149.226.37 19 juillet 2006 à 19:30 (UTC)
orthography modifier
I've kept the Auguste Chouteau's original orthography. It's different : For Chief Pontiac he wrote Pondiac, etc.
Modification suggérée à la page 2 modifier
À la suite d'un nouvel examen des PDF du manuscrit, Brigitte SB et moi croyons qu'au 2e-3e lignes du 4e paragraphe (1er par. e la p. 2), les mots "pour dessiner" doivent être retranchés. La rature du second "de faire" par l'auteur visait simplement à supprimer la répétition d'un verbe écrit quelques mots plus tôt (en début de ligne), non à remplacer "de faire" par "pour dessiner". Nous croyons que ces derniers mots sont plutôt la suite de la ligne précédente, qui a été entièrement supprimée. Le texte devient donc : « Il fut enchanté de voir la situation (où est St Louis présentiment) il n'esita pas un momant d'y faire l'établissement qu'il projettait en ce que outre la beauté du cyte (..) » J'ai donc effectué, directement sur le texte, la modification proposée. Bien sûr, il s'agit d'une suggestion... --BeatrixBelibaste 18 septembre 2006 à 11:52 (UTC)